Rhonda Byrne discusses the topic of Seeing and Being Awareness from her new book The Greatest Secret in conversation with featured teacher Hale Dwoskin for his podcast series, Letting Go & The Greatest Secret. Click below to watch the video or scroll down for a full transcript of the conversation.

Hale Dwoskin Intro – Of the billions of people on our planet, only a few have discovered the truth. Those few are completely free from the turmoil and negativity of life and live in permanent peace and happiness. For the rest of us, whether we realize it or not, we’ve been in search of this truth unceasingly every single day of our lives. That’s the opening paragraph of Rhonda Byrne‘s book The Greatest Secret and today we talk with her in this episode of Letting Go and The Greatest Secret.  podcast dedicated to sharing the wisdom so beautifully expressed in this book.

I’m Hale Dwoskin.

 

Hale – My friend the beloved bestselling author Rhonda Byrne launched a global phenomenon with the publication of The Secret in 2006. I was blessed to be featured in that book which helped readers understand the untapped powers that reside within. Rhonda‘s newest book The Greatest Secret is a quantum leap that takes readers beyond the material world and into the spiritual realm where all possibilities exist. This book reveals the greatest discovery a human being can ever make and shows you the way out of negativity, problems, and what you don’t want, to well life of permanent happiness and bliss. I’m also blessed to be featured in The Greatest Secret along with my mentor Lester Levenson.

 

Hale – So welcome Rhonda, thank you for being here. I’m looking forward to having a wonderful conversation.

 

Rhonda – So am I, thank you so much for having me Hale. It is lovely to be here, really is. Exciting we get to do this again, and both you and Lester have been a big part in this book so it’s very special. Actually, all of the teachers in the book are actually my journey from The Secret to now. So, every single teacher in that book past and present has changed my life in one way or another and so teachers are very, very, special to me they’re very teary, when I think about them and just I’ve had such big aha moments with each one of you, and so it’s really, really, special the book is very special. But do you know I regard The Greatest Secret as the sequel to The Secret because it really continues on from where The Secret ends. The last basically two chapters of The Secret and then this book continues on from there. So, I consider at the true sequel. Yeah.

 

Hale – Yes I think it is really appropriate, really appropriate. Since you already mentioned that, how do you feel that people, so many people read the book, watched the movie, did both, and I’ve been on some interviews recently where people said they had watched The Secret 30 times the original movie, 30 times. And probably read the book the same number of times so they’re, you have many fans from The Secret all over the world and I’ve been getting some feedback that some of them are having a hard time adjusting to the almost quantum leap that The Greatest Secret talks about although we really did talk about some of that in the book, but a lot of people skipped over that part.

 

Rhonda – Yeah they did.

 

Hale – I just want more stuff. I don’t care about that other stuff, how do I get more stuff? And obviously this is much more than that so you can you speak to that a little bit how The Greatest Secret and The Secret support each other and reinforce each other, help each other, and how they are really the same message just going deeper?

 

Rhonda – Just a step further. Well if I was to sum up The Secret then I would say The Secret revealed to us the power of the mind to create and the power of thought. And that’s why it was so incredibly successful because I think it’s the first step to our freedom that book. The sense of freedom that people felt when they realized that they couldn’t create wanted what they wanted and they would just focus their thoughts on what they wanted and not what they didn’t want, that they could direct their life. And so it was just the beginning of the power of the mind and even though so many people have sabotaged their life by giving their attention to negative thoughts and then creating that in their life, The Secret really just showed us that there is just one way to go and that is to only give your focus to thoughts of what you want, it’s that simple really. The mind will always be in the physical world this powerful and our thoughts will always be this powerful to create our life and so that’s the first step. What The Greatest Secret does is it is also dealing with the mind but it’s showing us that while the mind is an incredible creator of making things appear as appearances, the mind can also be our greatest torturer. And if we give it authority over our life and if we allow it to be our psychotherapist, our psychologist, our psychiatrist and we believe negative thoughts we believe all of those thoughts, then it will bring us asunder, and I think it is done that for many people especially in recent times. When we face a challenging event that’s when we get to see how we are going with the mind, right?

 

Hale – Everything is easy when everything is beautiful.

 

Rhonda – Exactly!, exactly right. When you’re laying by the swimming pool on vacation it’s just oh you know my mind so quiet and then when you go through a very challenging event that’s when you get to see how things really are. So in that way it’s a gift actually, it’s a gift because we’ve got to see, well how am I doing? And are there just so many fearful thoughts coming one after, the other after, the other after, the other after, and are you believing them all. And I think The Greatest Secret what it does is, first of all it shows us that any suffering that we have I having all going through is coming from negative thoughts and negative feelings and believing the negative thoughts, and then reacting to the negative feelings, and then we’re just trapped. We’re really, really, trapped. And so, it’s freeing us of suffering but then at the same time what it is doing is, as we come to understand the mind and the power of the mind in terms of being our biggest troublemaker, it then frees us from it, so we can use it for what we want but then when we can be free of it then the beauty of who we really are will arise, from within us and the happiness that we are our true nature which is happiness and beauty and love and intelligence and knowing our true nature will appear. So in The Greatest Secret you learn the only thing that is covering over your true nature is all of those thoughts and all of those feelings and beliefs and everything that we’ve kind of piled on since we were really little, those are the things that are covering up and the best thing in the world is to let them go, it’s the best thing in the world.

 

Hale – I’ve heard you say that.

 

Rhonda – Yeah! And you just get happier and happier and happier and happier and the amazing thing about that happiness and this comes back to The Secret because in The Secret the creative process was asked, believe, receive and to receive was to feel good, you know just feel good. So when I’m not believing the mind so much and not paying attention to those thoughts of not giving at all of your attention, and then the happiness that arises, when you are that happy life is incredible. Life is absolutely incredible. You don’t even have to visualise anything because it just comes I mean it just appears right whatever you need just appears and you are waking up and existing in this foundation of this peaceful happiness, like I don’t even know how to describe it because it’s not happiness, it’s not like happiness that I felt when something you know manifested or it’s like this incredible, the difference between lasting happiness is the same happiness and fleeting happiness that when it stays with you all of the time it’s this peaceful happiness. It’s just, you realize that the happiness that you’ve longed for all of your life is just this peace you know this incredible peace and so you don’t get disturbed by all of the comings and goings of the world, all the comings and goings of other people, who are you know feeling good one-day and not so good the other day, and people that bite people‘s heads off, and you know you’re not affected by any of that anymore and I just think to be free of negative emotions and I can only can speak of my own experience. And for the last four years I have dedicated myself to seeing their beliefs that do not serve me at all, which is all of them.

 

Hale – Yeah right! (laughing)

 

Rhonda – And spotting those beliefs and just like on my gosh it was a belief. And just letting it collapse and then just feeling lighter, and lighter, and more expanded and more expanded. I mean all I can say is this is it. This is it. It’s from the moment that I realized who I really am which is what The Secret reveals, from the moment I realized that life, I stop seeking for a start.

 

Hale – Isn’t that a relief?

 

Rhonda – Isn’t it a relief? Really!

 

Hale – Yeah.

 

Rhonda – I thought I’d be seeking for the rest of my life and I love seeking to, you know I loved it but I just stop seeking instantly and then everything was about being who I am. Practicing that and doing lots of practices so I would be able to share those things but releasing limiting beliefs and releasing negative emotions, and I mean I just got to the point I was so excited when a negative emotion appeared because I would get to let it go. I would just get to welcome that negative feeling and just watch it dissolve, and it happened so quickly the more that you do it, in the emotion appears and it’s just like gone, like a puff of smoke.

 

Hale – Right, right it’s like has no substance yeah.

 

Rhonda – It’s got nothing to grip onto right?

 

Hale – Yeh right that’s the key. So can we talk a little bit more about that. One of the things that I love about what was focused on The Secret is something that we teach to is that you, when you recognize, I think actually I have a quote about this in the book but when you recognize that person that you thought you were, isn’t actually who you are, that you are… I think that’s your phone.

 

Rhonda – It is, oh my gosh, I’m going to turn it off, ah yes.. when you recognize..

 

Hale – Yes when you recognize that you’re that where everything all the feelings refer to this personal individual you,

 

Rhonda – yeah, yeah.

 

Hale – and when you start seeing through that they have less and less for them to stick to. Wouldn’t you agree with that?

 

Rhonda – Absolutely, absolutely and yet isn’t it true that that’s probably, I remember how confronting that was for me initially, when that first, you know you’re not the person you think you are and the mind and the egos, what do you mean?

 

Hale – Yeah

 

Rhonda – I remember how confronting that was. I think in The Greatest Secret it’s just you know just trying to be very gentle there, is certainly having the experience of being a person, there’s no doubt about that, and no one is questioning that. But yeah it’s not who we are and so it’s just incredible that the more that you become who you are, and the less you’re identified with this form, and this and the story and everything the happier you will become and the more magical your life will be. And so it’s just so beautiful, it’s just like as I was trying to tell the whole world you have to go this way and one of the things that I really love because I was brought up Christian and so then I studied all the religions in my in journey, is the Prodigal son and I just feel certainly for me, for decades I had been like the Prodigal son and just falling over and collapsing, getting up again and wadding through mud and you know and really, really, really struggling until this moment, where I saw the truth and was home, instantly home. And home to the welcoming and to the joy and to the happiness. Oh my gosh, you know it’s just, if you could just give spoonfuls to every single person right, if you could just, and it’s crazy because it’s her we are like it’s already there within everybody, it’s who they are. But for some it is sort of a bit of a journey isn’t it?

 

Hale – No it is. It feels like a journey that’s the weird thing.

 

Rhonda – It feels like a journey, yeah.

 

Hale – It’s a journey to where with never left, yet it still feels like a journey.

 

Rhonda – It does.

 

Hale – It feels almost like being on a treadmill. I remember one of the things that really hit me early on in this journey for me is that I realize the times I was most aware of the truth of who I am is when I stopped going anywhere. Not just physically that actually doesn’t matter, but there’s this sense of wanting to get something, wanting to even the truth of who you are is always taking you away from it. Is that what your experience to that once you see what it is you just need to stop looking away from it.

 

Rhonda-yeah exactly. I mean it’s just this light it’s kind of shift and in fact, how can you not even be it you know I remember when I first realize who I was and then I would and then I would all my gosh it was the most incredible moment I mean it was January 2016 and I was just how did I miss this? How did I miss this? It’s so obvious it’s right here. How could I have possibly missed it and then I’ll be driving on the freeway like I’ve lost it, I’ve lost it.

 

Hale – that’s what it feels like at first where did it go? Where did it go?

 

Rhonda – Where did it go?

 

Hale – Where did it go, I’ve lost it, right?

 

Rhonda – I’ve got to get it back. I’ve got to get it back. And I remember the way that I would get it back would be, I would say well are you aware of that other car, are you are aware of your hands on the steering wheel, are you aware, are you aware of this, are you aware of that and I’d be like they were there’s awareness. You know and so I would just doing things like that and then would feel like it would feel exactly like you’ve lost it, and it isn’t, it’s just you’ve put your attention on thinking.

 

Hale – Right, right.

 

Rhondas – Right. Yeah.

 

Hale – It’s confusing because we don’t realize that the thoughts in our head aren’t who we are.

 

Rhonda – Exactly!

 

Hale – We think where the thoughts.

 

Rhonda – We think that’s us and we are so identified with that.

 

Hale – Oh yeah we forget. Francis Lucille said something to me in I think it was 94 which really hit me very deeply, he said, “How much power does the thought I actually have?” The thought. And we get so identified with that thought that we don’t realize that that awareness that we are is giving the power to that thought. We think it’s coming from that thought.

 

Rhonda – Yeah, Yeah.

 

Hale – As soon as you start to see through that it’s very different isn’t it?

 

Rhonda – Very yeah very it’s incredible really.Yeah Francis is wonderful isn’t he? Francis is, he is so fantastic. Yeah.

 

Hale – One of the things that I’ve been loving about doing these interviews as I haven’t spoken to Francis since the mid 90s and all the other teachers I’ve been speaking to it’s like rediscovering my deepest friends or my family and we’ve been having these wonderful conversations like this and it’s just so affirming that we all the one self, which we truly are.

 

Rhonda – yeah.

 

Hale – Although that sounds a bit metaphysical that pure awareness that is operating through all, is speaking through all these different forms and it’s all spontaneous.

 

Rhonda – Yes, It’s incredible right? We’re so clever.

 

Hale – Yeah

 

Rhonda – Where are so clever. We are so clever. I love one of the things that Francis said one of the most incredible things that Francis said that really, I love so much because I’m just all about simplicity. Somehow or another this form, was you know, simple, simple, simple. One of the things that he said was, “It is what is hearing these words right now.”

 

Hale – Yes.

 

Rhonda – You know. You are what is hearing these words right now because I remember for a time that I, and this was after I knew who I was, but for a time, I was kind of feeling like I had to get somewhere you know to be deeper.

 

Hale – yeah right, right.

 

Rhonda – And that there’s another, it’s not me but there’s this other one that I have to get to. And then he would say that it’s the one that’s hearing these words right now. They’ll be like no there’s no one to get to it’s here, it’s here, it’s right here it’s hearing these words and it’s just that you gave it the name of, you gave that very thing that’s aware of absolutely everything in your life you gave it the name of Rhonda.

 

Hale – Right laughing.

 

Rhonda – Right? And that was not its name right you know that was not it. It is nameless and it’s here and it’s the one that’s hearing the words it’s the one that’s aware that you’re sitting here that you’re you know, that you woke up this morning that yeah.

 

Hale – It watches you wake up.

 

Rhonda – It watches you wake up, exactly.

 

Hale – We think I wake up. No, it watches you wake up every morning it watches you go to sleep, it watches you go through your whole day, totally oblivious at times.

 

Rhonda – Yeah. But in the background so the mind is being such an interesting trickster that it’s always, you know, has been for many us in the foreground so we don’t even notice that beautiful presence that is sitting so quietly in the background. And so as the mind weakens  with all its bits and pieces with all of it’s bag of tricks..

 

Hale – right, right, right.

 

Rhonda – It’s believing, it’s limiting beliefs, it’s memories and it’s thoughts and feelings and as it weakens then awareness comes to the foreground and it moves into the background and that’s when we talking about Nirvana and heaven on earth. that is just so beautiful. and I feel for you know when I see people suffering and I mean and I have something to like you know I’ve had lots of things happening in my life. I’ve created from The Secret the most incredible life really amazing dream life, but then things can happen that are sort of outside of that you know to somebody else who is creating their large family member that you love and so I’ve had lots of different things you know that anybody would consider enormously challenging to go through but the peace is always there. That peace and happiness is always there. What I’m talking about because I’m I feel fledgling at awareness compared to you. But it’s just all my gosh so wonderful that when you’re facing somebody that you love going through immense suffering that you still have that peaceful happiness underneath, and then you are just, what you were incredible in being able to comfort and compassion and help, you’re rock, you’re a rock for people. And I found that when our village was here, I mean in California and our village was hit with terrible fires and mudslides and we lost a lot of people from our village in those mudslides and at that time, I still had, even though it looks like an atomic bomb had been dropped on our whole area, you just couldn’t even recognize this beautiful village any more, still in amongst all of that the happiness and the peace was there, but because of that I was able to help a lot of people.

 

Hale – Yes.

 

Rhonda – You know by just sitting down and talking with them and people who’d lost mothers and loved ones and so it’s really special.

 

Hale – And it was just you being you, not the personal you, you that awareness that you are.

 

Rhonda – Yeah, yeah.

 

Hale – This is my belief about this but I may not be expressing it correctly, but it feels like, when you are just at rest as that which you are, it invites the person you’re speaking to, to experience the same thing, even if they know nothing about it.

 

Rhonda – Yeah totally.

 

Hale – And that’s what they’re looking for anyway and it’s very comforting and it’s relaxing and it’s opening, so it helps people get through whatever they’re going through.

 

Rhonda  – I most definitely I’m just I even know from doing interviews with The Greatest Secret that I did one yesterday for the UK for a gorgeous gorgeous, girl Fearne Cotton, and she has millions of followers and she said to me at the end of the interview actually she said that she had woken up in a real funk, and she’d had a really funky day, and she was really depressed, and the lockdown, and it was raining, and the kids were going crazy, and all of that kind of thing and she said at the end of the interview that she just felt so incredible and so happy. I mean that’s just, you know, there’s nothing better than that and actually she jumped onto Instagram and said I’ve just finished an interview and podcast and I can’t wait till you will see it, and they’re all saying we need it now, we need it now. But you know something like that to just know that and I’m doing as much as I can for The Greatest Secret, because I just feel in talking about it simplifies it even more.

 

Hale – It does.

 

Rhonda- You know in having this conversation with you and then somebody reads the book all their reading it and then it just, these words just make it simpler because it’s becoming more familiar, you know, I mean this truth is there with everyone. This is the truth of who you are and so the truth, the truth is there and it’s only the mind that’s like, oh no, I’m not into it.

 

Hale – Yeah right.

 

Rhonda – Oh no, no, no.

 

Hale – It’s not all about me personally so it can’t be true.

 

Rhonda – Right, Right. The mind Is really incredible isn’t it? I laugh a lot at the mind now but if I mean it’s really, really, got a bag of trips going on and it doesn’t even exist you know.

 

Hale – Of course, I know.

 

Rhonda – I know a bag of non-existent tricks.

 

Hale – Well that’s the nature of a trick. It appears to be real, but it isn’t.

 

Rhonda – Yes, it’s an illusion yeah totally.

 

Hale -Yeah totally.

 

Rhonda – Oh it’s awesome, it’s all so amazing.

 

Hale – It is, it is. Let’s give people a little taste. Do you want to explain, give someone, give the people listening something they can explore right now, that will help them, again, I’m sure they’re starting to sense it just from our conversation? If you notice how all of you watching this now, notice how you feel in this moment, you probably already feel more open, more relaxed, happier, more at ease at that’s just, we were just talking about it. So Rhonda why don’t you do something, something simple that you think would help them see it a little more clearly?

 

Rhonda – See awareness a little more clearly?

 

Hale – Yes.

 

Rhonda – Okay so I’ll tell you what I did. This is what I did and it was so simple, really, really simple, I would, and there is a dedication happening in this form. I would as many times as I possibly could during the day, I would ask, am I aware? And the moment that I asked that question, awareness was here everywhere, and so initially when you ask am I aware, you, will just notice that you are aware. And so that’s perfect. You are not answering the question you do not have to answer the question because when you ask when I’m aware your mind goes into a, woo, woo, woo, the mind drops because it doesn’t recognize awareness, so you just have this moment of relief when you ask, am I aware? So, I would do that often in the day, am I aware? And often I would use my feelings as a way to trigger that. So, I would notice if the happiness was sort of ebbing a little bit and then I would ask am I aware and then immediately the happiness would arise again. So that’s the very first thing that I did and this is a practice in the book and this is exactly what I did, and it’s so, so simple, and then in a very short amount of time you can’t even ask the question, because the moment that you go to ask the question, you can’t even get it out because awareness is just there. And so, step two is notice awareness, so after you get to that point then you can just notice awareness often during the day. I just did it a lot and the more that I did it, the deeper it became, the happier I became, the more beliefs I saw that we’re not true. Then I would ask because I’m really game, then I would ask for, to present anything to me that is an obstacle in my path to being fully who I am, and when I would ask that off and all hell would break loose.

 

Hale – Yes, that is what sometimes happens.

 

Rhonda – Yeah. So I thought an example I had like this health scare and I remember that, and there was so much fear around, all this fear arose, and I remember I was talking to my teacher, my current teacher is also in the book but she is anonymous and she said this is fantastic, this is fear this is the one, this is the one. This is great you have fear to overcome and I said yes but I didn’t know that that there would arise from a health scare. I mean that’s not fun.

 

Hale – Yeah, right, right.

 

Rhonda – I just want to tackle fear you know over here.

 

Hale – Yeah right, right in literally, in little boxes, right?

 

Rhonda – I don’t want to have something real attached to it, and she said well how would you ever and she said but you have to have something real attached to it because otherwise you wouldn’t be fearful. So what happened from me was, this was a gift and I knew it was a gift, and I knew that when I continued to welcome and once I had completely, to use your language, to release, completely released all the fear around it that it would be gone. You know and that’s what happened. But the really wonderful thing is that I got to work on fear and believe me I was working on it 24 hours a day, and I was working on it 24 hours a day. And then it got to a point where that the thing, where the health situation was still there, and then just didn’t bother me one bit.

 

Hale – Right, right.

 

Rhonda – It was just you know it just kind of then, you know, it really just faded away. So going then into the pandemic where people no doubt were experiencing fear and many people were expense experiencing fear in them arising in them, and I did have no fear whatsoever you know because I’d already spent a lot of time releasing fear. Just so enormously grateful for that because to live a life age even to reduce the fear, you know, any amount of fear that we’ve suppressed inside of us is just incredible. So, I was really lucky. So anyway those are the two steps that I did, so, am I aware? I would ask that question often and then you’ll get to a point where you don’t even have to ask the question because you go to ask but an awareness is so present and the more that you notice awareness the more it’s coming into the foreground, and the more expansive, and the more luminous, and the more magnificent life becomes, and the happier you become, and so basically as you’re noticing awareness you’re then doing what I’ve got a step three which is stay as awareness and so the one just merges into the other it’s actually it’s really just the one step, but I kind of split it so that people beginning would find it easier, and that’s what I did.

 

Hale – Yes. Well that’s beautiful. And you do out widen that and again I just want to say to everyone watching this all you’re not watching your listening I get confused, but you, if you haven’t picked up The Greatest Secret you really need to it is such a wonderful book and so well written. Rhonda did such a beautiful job putting it together and they’re just simple things like what Rhonda just mentioned, those three steps. So I just wanted to give you a little plug there but also..

 

Rhonda – Thank you. And also the audiobook is so gorgeous because you incredible beings are all your voices so I just think The Greatest Secret Audiobook is amazing to just bring people to awareness and keep them there because your voices, and your energy, and your presence is just amazing.

 

Hale – Yeah, I love the audiobook. I intend to listen to that more than once and I don’t usually do that with anything.

 

Rhonda – Nor do I actually.

 

Hale – But I wanted to, isn’t it also a feeling of falling in love with that which you truly are. Isn’t that a natural outflowing of that, can you absolutely speak to that because?

 

Rhonda – Definitely, definitely. Oh my gosh it’s so like that that’s why I get tears in my eyes when I think of the teachers who were just so generous and so welcoming, and just all of these incredible beings just said yes. You know. I will be in the book but let me tell you a story about my current teacher because in 2000, January to 2016 I realized who I was then, a couple of months later I was at a retreat and this person walked into the room. I have been told that this person had been a student of Lester Levenson’s and Robert Adams, two of my absolute, I can’t even speak about them without getting tears really and truly, and it’s because Lester was so simple with this language and so concise, and it’s just amazing, and Robert Adams his work showed me the bridge from The Secret to The Greatest Secret. Those two teachers just meant so much to me and so this person had been a student of both of them, so I went up to talk to her to say student of Robert and Lester’s and the moment that I stepped up to her, I, Rhonda completely disappeared, gone. I was just home. Home. Tears were streaming down my face of just ecstatic joy and bliss and in that moment I felt so, so, desperately in love with who we are. And she reflected to me who we are, and I became that, and that feeling of being in love is the feeling with me every single second of every day. You know in doing interviews and everything and I just know with people suffering, you know, so much at the moment, that if they just knew if they just had a glimpse of how magnificent they really are, and how beautiful they are, and just how in love with themselves that they are, you know everything that we are, is the opposite of what we think we are.

 

Hale – Oh, that true, yes!

 

Rhonda – Right? Absolutely everything is the opposite of what we think we are. I mean the ego and the mind is struggling, and effort, and all of these different, and wanting approval, and wanting attention, and all of these things, and wanting control, and wanting, and who we are is just effortless glorious in love with everything.

 

Hale – Yes that is.

 

Rhonda – Everything that is especially in love with itself.

 

Hale – Right, right and again it’s also very simple isn’t it? It’s one way of expressing it is just this, what’s always in the background or in the foreground depending on whether you’re paying attention or not, is this sense of affectionate awareness.

 

Rhonda – Yes, yes. Absolutely yeah.

 

Hale – It’s interesting.

 

Rhonda – I feel so big that I feel so big at the moment, that I’ve got the ocean out there and I’m just like expanding.

 

Hale – Yes, yes, yes.

 

Rhonda – Spreading out to the ocean.

 

Hale – And beyond probably.

 

Rhonda – Ha and beyond probably.

 

Hale – When you mentioned Lester and Robert you know that really pulls at my heartstrings too, even my personal heart springs because I had similar experiences they were they basically were my primary teachers in a lot of ways, and when I met Lester, he was the first teacher that where I felt this, where there was oh my god this is something there was a recognition.

 

Rhonda – Yes, yes, yes.

 

Hale –  That made me want to dedicate my life to that and then when I met Robert, I met Robert very fortunately right after Lester died I met Robert.

 

Rhonda – Right.

 

Hale – I met him at this coffee shop and I was just sitting with him, there was just this wave after wave of just bliss. Just passing through awareness and oh so this is the next person who is going to point me in the correct direction, and I was incredibly fortunate that I’d spent 18 years with Lester and a year and a half with Robert right before he died.

 

Rhonda – yeh he died. Yeah. So I mean they’re there just did and I just feel I am so grateful to you for all of Lester‘s teachings and for carrying the torch for all of his teachings, and then you know as the years have continued on, and finding new ways to simplify those teachings and make those teachings more accessible, easier for people and it’s just it’s a blessing because nothing has been lost at all, absolutely nothing. You know there is one book that I have by my bedside table and now you have it in. Now people have access to that book through the books that you’ve done have they not?

 

Hale – Happiness Is Free book.

 

Rhonda – Happiness Is Free book, and so I had his original one of Happiness Is Free and it’s completely out of print and you can’t get it anyway, but I have that’s the only book that I have by my bedside table, that’s it, yeah. You know I don’t read anymore Hale, and you know I’ve read thousands of books the search was incredible, it was just relentless, and you know on the search I discovered lots of incredible things that people, you know most people don’t know of, or anything, sort of phenomenal things that are pretty thrilling but I remember there was my mentor who was in the Canary Islands, and he said to me be very careful. Be very careful that you don’t go down the track of the phenomenal, sensational, you know astral, and all of that. Don’t get caught don’t get caught down there and you know there were times in my life where I see all kinds of things and you know spectacular things, and I would remember his words and I’ll be like no, no, I’m going in a different direction. Yeah but I didn’t even know what that time what direction I was going and I didn’t even know.

 

Hale – But you were saved that’s wonderful and so I watched so many people get caught in the phenomenon, yeah.

 

Rhonda – Yeah. I went through a time with The Secret I went through a time that was all part of the journey and it was really perfect that I had that that little time, that small time of it, because in so many ways it showed me, that, watch everything that we think, nothing is what it appears to be. That’s what all of that.. that’s how all of the phenomenal kind of stuff helped me that nothing is what is it appears to be at all, and we are not what we appear to be.

 

Hale – Yeh right.

 

Rhonda – When that happens then your mind really opens, you know, doesn’t it? Because one thing would you agree with this Hale that one of the trickiest things of all, is how closed the mind is, you know, because right?

 

Hale – Well the mind doesn’t even realize it’s closed.

 

Rhonda – No.

 

Hale – The mind only sees the mind.

 

Rhonda – Yes, yes!

 

Hale – It can’t see beyond itself because even the things that we see in our physical environment we are seeing them minds version of it.

 

Rhonda – That’s right. Right. That’s just looking at our mind. That’s all we’re looking at.

 

Hale – One of the things that people know is that you’re sharing in the book, is that you’re actually that which is looking at the mind.

 

Rhonda- That’s right. You wouldn’t know you had a mind. You wouldn’t even know you had a mind, would you?

 

Hale – That’s right.

 

Rhonda – You would not be aware of the mind, you wouldn’t even know the thought without awareness, or consciousness. You wouldn’t even know that it was a thought, you wouldn’t know there was a mind, you wouldn’t know of memory, you wouldn’t know there was a body, you wouldn’t know anything, you wouldn’t know there’s a day, or an hour, or you wouldn’t know anything. You wouldn’t be aware of any of your senses. It’s all yeah, it’s all awareness and so yeah, you’re that which is looking at all of it. And so sweetly and beautifully you know. I mean I find that I will just laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and laugh over something, like it just, something will appear, and I see everybody’s taking something so seriously and something will occur to me and I would just laugh, I would just continue to laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and I’m like, there goes another belief.

 

Hale – Yeah right. Another one bites the dust.

 

Rhonda – Another one bites the dust, yep. And you know it’s really incredible this and I think I mention it in The Greatest Secret. I remember I was at a meeting with a teacher and somebody had asked a question and the teacher was answering them, and oh my gosh, right then and there I was like oohhhh, oohhhh, I just expanded I just expanded because I realize what that person was talking about and what the teacher was talking about they’re pointing out the belief and I had had that same belief, and so I actually had to get up out of the room and walk out to just be oohhhh, and watch that belief absolutely collapse and disintegrate and I can’t even tell you what the belief was.

 

Hale – Right, you don’t even remember anymore.

 

Rhonda – I don’t remember, I don’t remember. I can’t remember, it’s not there anymore it’s completely gone.

 

Hale – Oh I know it’s gone.

 

Rhonda – So I went to tell the teacher after the meeting that was so incredible because I had that belief too, but I don’t remember what that belief was. I don’t know what that belief was. So it’s great.

 

Hale – Right, right. I know it’s one of the ways you can tell that you’re really complete on something because it’s not even in your consciousness anymore.

 

Rhonda – No it’s gone, it’s completely gone, and then you have all this space for joy and happiness.

 

Hale – It’s wonderful. We’re so fortunate for several ways reasons one to have discovered this within ourselves, and two to be being used to share this with the world. That is such a blessing, don’t you agree?

 

Rhonda – Absolutely I mean I feel so blessed. I feel so blessed that I realize this in this lifetime I’m just overcome with gratitude and joy to have discovered this and I would love to have discovered it when I was 20, but I didn’t. I’m just enormously grateful to have discovered it and then to be able to share it is just above and beyond it really, really is. It’s the greatest thing in the world I think there’s nothing greater and there’s no stopping it you know, you can’t like the push, the sort of push within, it can’t be stopped it’s unstoppable to just help and to serve and the love that I feel for human beings is just I can’t, can’t, describe it. You know it’s just so enormous, and yeah it’s absolutely beautiful.

 

Hale – Yes, yes, it’s another tear moment.

 

Rhonda- Yes, it’s another tear moment. Yes

 

Hale – Yes, it’s so nice, I call that wet awareness.

 

Rhonda – Oh that’s so lovely. It’s so lovely. Beautiful.

 

Hale – So I could speak like this for hours.

 

Rhonda – Me too.

 

Hale – But we do go on too long, it gets too long.

 

Rhonda – Yes. Totally.

 

Hale – So I just want to say to everybody, I just want to before I can wrap up for this part of the podcast, I just wanted you to see if you have any parting words of wisdom or any suggestions for people to explore based on what we’ve we discussed either one or both?

 

Rhonda – Well I would like to say to everybody that there is nothing more important, there’s nothing greater than you discovering who you are. And actually everything else is kind of irrelevant because the life that you dream of having and to just realize the eternity of your true nature and not spend a life, you know fearing death, but to have to have to make the greatest discovery you can ever make. Make it this lifetime. Do it this lifetime, do it now, Lester did it in three months, whatever he did, did it in and I know from my own practice that it doesn’t take very long at all. Do it, just do it, do it because all my gosh I promise you, I promise you life will just be incredible and you’ll be so happy and, just discover who you are just do it just do it. That’s all that I have to say find out how incredible you are, find out how beautiful you are, find out how amazing you are. Do that this lifetime make a promise it’s tiny little steps and you’ll be there, it’s already who you are so it’s not hard, do it. Except there is no doer but you know you have to say.

 

Hale – But we pretend.

 

Rhonda – We pretend. We pretend but realize who you are.

 

Hale – Yes yes.

 

Rhonda – and let that other one go that story and you know that story, you know, the life and death story, that you know born and die story you know that story let that one go you know because that’s not who you are that’s a fun experience that you’re having but it’s not who you are. Sometimes fun experience right? Yeah Yeah. There’s some people, that I mean it’s fun all the time for me now but boy there were times in my life that wasn’t fun.

 

Hale – Yes of course. Life continues, wouldn’t you agree? That you are just seeing it from a different point of view.

 

Rhonda – You’re seeing it from a different point of view, and nothing’s personal you know and so nothing disturbs. It’s like this beautiful calm still lake that you are, that even if the world is rippling and other people are there, storms all around you, you just remain this still calm lake. That’s beautiful.

 

Hale – So I just want to say again to everyone, first of Rhonda thank you so much for spending the time.

 

Rhonda – Oh my gosh, absolute pleasure and thank you so much for being a part of The Greatest Secret and contributing to make this book so incredible and Lester, all of Lester’s work and no thank you, and thank you for doing the audiobook because it was just amazing as well so it’s my pleasure and my honor.